The Decoy Effect

uhm whatever about all that…because i think the funny thing is when we say ‘we’re making huge strides re: race relations’ and yet….all we fucking talk about is obama’s race. i mean, right? like, i dont know what’s worse, saying ‘yea, a black man could NEVER be president’ or ‘omg! can you believe a BLACK MAN is president!?’ really, i think they’re saying the same thing, non?

so,i guess i sort of agree with you…but maybe mine is the third/decoy option? hmmm….

Hello, I can’t understand how to add your blog ( negativeneil.com ) in my rss reader

negativeneil.com – great domain name for blog like this)))

Wait… isnt his Mom white?

Clearly the decision to forego blowing up airplanes was a good one by the Civil Rights Movement.

Sorry to be nitpicking, but since you mentioned the decoy effect, I’m not sure it’s really properly employed here, unless we’re being VERY liberal in it’s application. The decoy effect involves two original choices on the same plane, and predicts that a person’s preferences change when a third choice is introduced, but again on the same plane. Hence, if we’re analyzing people’s voting preferences in the presidential election, you have to define the three choices. You just appear to be saying that since Americans think George Bush is a retard and they’re afraid of “Arab Muslims” (thanks for clarifying, that South Asian Muslims, such as myself, are somehow not as frightening), the idea of a Black President is somewhat more acceptable. However, what are the three choices that you’re applying the decoy effect too? It’s not as if George Bush is up for re-election (I guess you could argue that McCain is more of the same but we still have a problem with choice 3) and it’s not like we have, heaven forbid, an ARAB MUSLIM candidate.

I do agree with you that George Bush’s presidency helped set up the election of Barack Obama to an extent.

However, I disagree with the notion that America’s fear of extremist Muslims, has somehow made a black president more palatable. In fact, I think that it was precisely this fear that led to George W. Bush’s second term election.

Also, I agree with Togeaux that your whole argument rests on the premise that voter’s perceive Obama to be a black candidate, which is not a given. Obama’s father was black. He was barely acquainted with his father- is that enough to make him a black candidate as opposed to a mix-race candidate, considering he was raised by a white mother and grandmother? If so, then let’s not forget, his father was also a Muslim. By the same logic, Obama would be the Muslim candidate in your decoy effect example!

Sorry for the rant, still love Adam and I guess you, by association, though that would be stretching things even farther than your application of the decoy effect! Can’t wait for Adam to get his MJ on this week . . .

Z

those are all fair points. I wasn’t actually trying to apply the Decoy Effect, but I ran into a definition of it and it got me thinking about similar realities in Politics.

I think it’s telling that the Right’s primary strategy up until this point is precisely to paint him as the Muslim outsider. What, with emphasizing HUSSEIN Obama whenever possible, the Madrassa story, the “Pallin’ around with terrorists”, etc. etc.

My point is simply that white culture in America used to fear the black man. Now that we’ve invented something scarier in the national consciousness, a black president doesn’t seem so outlandish.

Like you said, there’s no way in hell we’ll have an Arab Muslim president in the next century…

sorry for digressing, but i’m currently in pakistan, and even though the country is pretty much falling apart and i’m meant to be on the streets protesting, i managed to watch AI this week (priorities right?). I think I may have seen you with your rents. adam effing rocked, way to go team lambert! will be in Hong Kong next week, luckily the Star Network is available everywhere here, and it broadcasts AI with a 7 hour delay. just wanted to let you know that your bro is already a star pretty much all over asia . . .

Being one of those scary “Arab Muslims” you talk about, i think i agree with you on your Decoy Effect. I think muslims have taken over the evil role that was previously dominated by african americans and russian commies. This, to me, is a bit of relief because all i have to do is wait it out till a bigger “evil” comes out and then people won’t hate me so much..

The one thing that gets to me is why Arab Muslims are more scary than Asian Muslims when most terrorist reside in Asia, the arab world has them i won’t lie but we are trying to fight them and are not harboring them and reinforcing them..

Finally i feel the need to point out that there are really cool muslims out there like myself. I pray and fast and believe; I drink, i’m not veiled, i play a nun in a local musical show, i wished my friend a safe trip when she went to israel for passover and took my other friend to the under-cover gay bar when he wanted to meet Egyptian men.
And I’m not the only one out there, it’s just that my story doesn’t make the news.

I’m a little late, but this is a really intriguing topic… America IS more afraid of Arab Muslims now. I completely agree that we really aren’t very advanced when it comes to racial relations. Back before the elections, I was attending a Biden rally and as I was walking to get to the location, all I saw were endless “Barack HUSSEIN Obama” signs. It just goes to show that people will just see their enemy however they want to see him. Nevermind the facts. It’s unbelievable how ignorant some people are. I once had a conversation with an aquaintance about the presidential election, and she said (almost verbatim), “I’m kind of scared of Obama becoming president. Isn’t he Muslim?” And after I negated the accusation and asked why it matters anyway, she replied, “Well, aren’t we in a war with them?” Seriously? This is the state of America today.

I really think that if we had had seriously evil leaders following the 9/11 attacks, there could have been a second Holocaust, cleansing the US of Arabs, and half the population wouldn’t have batted an eyelid.

In the end, this really did help Obama. People are so preoccupied now with the big, bad Arabs that black people now suddenly don’t seem so scary to them. It’s sickening, but it’s the truth.

Black, White, I don’t care. But we are all dreaming if we think any politician, republican, democrat, liberal, black or white is any different. They are all the same (liars) and they do very little for the people. The all make bigger government, raise taxes, give away more of our country, services and medical to illegal’s, give away our business to foreign countries and mostly do whatever is in their best interest. Right now our president is using the media to say everything is getting better. Oh really, is that why they’re printing money like its going out of style. Hyperinflation around the corner. Cant wait.

I agree with you Neil, Obama would not have been elected, except for the Bush backlash, and no one was about to elect a women either.

Personally, I think Obama’s a closet Muslim. His roomies in college were Muslim, he went to live with of them for 6 months, and now one of them is on his team. HMMMMM.

Our country is in shambles, but he sends his entourage down to Cuba! HUH, how do you collaborate with a crazy man? Then wanting to go to Iran as a top priority. Pleazzzzz.

I don’t hate Muslims (in fact I have a Muslim student in my home right now), but beware if you think we can somehow come together and be on one team. It doesn’t exist. Not in this life, not ever.

THAT is your reasoning for Obama being a closet Muslim? That’s complete crap. Just because he’s friends with a few Muslims does not thereby make him a Muslim as well. And although our country may be in shambles, we can’t simply ignore foreign relations. Progress with Cuba, for instance, is long overdue. Thank God Cuban-Americans can finally visit their families in Cuba when they want to without a struggle.

I agree with Sarah. If I suddenly become who my closest friends are and who I’ve stayed with, apparently I’m a Chinese-Canadian-British-Indian-Hindu with a tinge of Korean and Australian mixed in. Wow, I didn’t know I was that multicultural.

And progress with Cuba completely overdue. Foreign relations may be one of the most important parts of Obama’s job right now (and I’m not just saying this because I’m Canadian ), and good for him for not shying away.

And I’m by no means a fanatical Obama supporter. Like Nan said, at the end of the day all politicians are liars, and we are cheating ourselves to think Obama’s any different. He may have accomplished a feat by becoming president, but, like he said himsself (I think in a recent visit to Turkey?), he doesn’t want the hate redirected towards Arab Muslims.

And I’m not really qualified to comment on the state of the economy, but I believe in what Hobbes said in the Leviathan; the people must give up a few of their rights in order to have protection and true governance.

I didn’t mean to imply that just cuz Obama stayed with his friends he is Muslim. I simply think he is. If looks like a skunk, smells like a skunk, and acts like a skunk…and even if it puts on a dress and lipstick…well, its still a skunk. And, add to it, all politicians are liars (and skunks for that matter). Yea that’s a big basket to put them all in, but they fit so nicely.

My only point about Cuba. You cant have progress with an insane person, it just wont happen. Its like talking sense into that mentally ill blabbing drunk on the side of the sidewalk. Casting pearls before swine.

I’m not familiar with HOBBES, but I do know what a Leviathan is- it’s a “demon, a monster”. Surely this is what I’d to give my rights up to. Huh? “To give up a few rights in order to have protection and true governance” WHAT, this is pure communism at its best. Let me see, If I can convince the public that they are worthless human beings, incompetent, and incapable of comprehending and accomplishing anything without me, then I have them. Then I can convince them that they need to be dependant on me, can only survive with me and are then willing to hand over all their decisions, privacy, choices, assets, and free will, so that “I the protector” can save them from themselves. The sheep in wolves clothing, the Leviathan. Yea that has worked real well for the people of Russia and all the countries of the world who are similar and whose people do their best to get out so that they can come to FREE America. Walking down that path of thinking power must be used in a market society to preserve peace and prosperity is deceptive. Have we forgotten what freedom really is, and how good we have it? I think so.

How is Thomas Hobbes wasn’t a Commie. He wrote a book in 1651 called the Leviathan: Matter, Form, and Power of a Common Wealth Ecclesiasticall and Civil that deals with governance and societal structure. It deals mostly with social contracts and the expectations that a government and its people must fulfill in order to be a part of a peaceful, successfull society. He also explains the difference between natural and civil rights. He, along with Locke and Rousseau, provided the foundations for contractarianism, from which parts of the theory of democracy were derived.

My take on Hobbes’ writings is that people must give up a few (not all) of their natural rights in order for the government to be able to protect them and give them civil rights. This only works in a free, consenting society, and like it or not we all gave up some of our natural rights in order for there to be peace/prosperity. He says that in order for chaos to be averted (too late now), and in order to prevent war of “all against all”, we must cede certain rights. Especially now, this is important. No one will be getting out of any debt or financial trouble without the help of the government, and the government can’t do anything without the people’s help. This is what Hobbes was referring to in his musings on the social contract.

(Oh, and anyone who thinks the US is free is kidding themselves)

(Sorry, typo. It was supposed to be ‘Thomas Hobbes …’)

I must say i’m incredibly disapointed with these comments. You guys really think that all muslims are out to get you? That they’re all little binladens plotting or praying for the destruction of the ‘land of the free’? And you really believe that just coz obama could be a “closet muslim” it’s reason enough to go against him? Can you really not tell the difference between fundamental extremism and a regular person whose relationship with God (not with you, just with God) happens to follow muslim preachings? And you think that you can pass judgement on a person based on his/her religious belief system not about who they are as a person?

i must say i thought this was a cool and interesting blog – now, i’m a little sorry i checked it. I think I would have preferred living in the bubble that was created by all those other americans i met.

You’re a good writer, astute and to the point. I like your style. Are you planning on writing as a career?

It didn’t seem to me like you condoned it. It’s just that you’d think our generation is smarter than that. It’s a bitter reminder of Bush’s legacy of the “modern day crusade”, no matter how hard Obama is working on undoing that (whether intentionally or not).
But thanks for the negativity pointers though, my negativity is a work in progress

What i’d like to say is that the negativity towards the west was reduced significantly with the election of obama, and every step he takes people feel more optimistic. There’s definitely less hate out there which in turn makes America safer. It’s much harder to motivate people against Obama, while Bush made it an easy target which is mishaps. And if he – in the next 40-8 years – manages to work a little on the Israel/Palestine issue, he will be dubbed a hero.

In 1997 i rode a camel in Sinai that was named “Clinton”. The Bedouin who owned the camel loved the US and thought highly of Clinton because was trying to help the region even if he’s not that successful.
Maybe in 2017 i’ll be on a camel called Obama

I agree with superluli; the hate towards the US especially has slightly subsided because of Obama’s election. I remember having a lot of snide, sarcastic conversations with a few of my peers about the general stupidity of the US and your leader (no offense intended) when Bush was around; now, whether we like it or not, if anyone voices a less-than-favourable opinion of Obama it’s always shot down. That’s a good thing and a bad thing: it’s great that he’s getting more people to accept the US; however, not a lot of regular people seem to realize that he’s just a person. He’s put on top of a pedastal, and that will make his large mistakes (which are inevitable) all the more pronounced. I really think that’s unfortunate; I like him and I want him to do well.

My only comment is that, when sitting next to a muslim family on a plane, if they wonder which seat is safest in case of a crash…don’t you do so too? Being a Pakistani muslim and having visited Arab countries and America I can see why one should be scared of Arab Muslims, I appreciate the use of this exclusive term by you, it goes to show you can discern better than many others!

I agree with Zil’s comment up there, despite the fact that I am forced to detour and wait at the end of a sea of traffic that is patiently waiting for protesters to subside, I manage to watch AI religiously! I go out everyday praying, albeit selfishly, that the next blast does’t happen in my way. Whether electing Obama was a huge progressive move for Americans or not one thing is clear using the word Hussein has NOT made him more friendly towards the group of muslims defiling the name of my religion.

In addition to that I have experience that has shattered my image that muslims, no matter where they are in the world, are a close knit group. Arabs are so different from muslims in other regions of the world that even I, a born muslim, cannot believe it.

I agree with your post – personally, I don’t see much in it to argue about because it makes sense.

However, some hypersensitive readers are bound to take what you’ve written the wrong way & accuse you of being an anti-Muslim bigot.

Good luck.

@superluli, I’m sorry if you got the idea that I think Obama being a Muslim would even matter. I think it’s absolutely ridiculous and disgusting that some people look down on the religion and its followers. I was simply commenting on the ignorance of people claiming he is Muslim, when they are obviously just trying to scare people. That’s what republicans are all about: fear. Just thought I’d clear that up.

I agree with the original premise. I figured those folks in Iowa were far more disgusted by/afraid of Bush (/McCain) and Hillary than they were by Barack.

Timing is everything.

Addressing those who seem greatly ignorant of the rest of the world and other religions: Educate yourself before speaking. I am a proud American willing to defend my country and, at the same time, acknowledge its faults. It is a fact that many Americans are living in a “Bubble” and are ignorant of what goes on in the rest of the world.
Firstly,” Muslim” does not mean terrorist. A Muslim is a normal person (not specifically Arab) who worships the same God as you do following the teachings of the Quran. It appears as if racism has only evolved to be more inclusive. By labeling anyone as black/ white, Muslim/Jew/Christian, etc… in any negative way is racism. America, respect and understand the world, and, maybe in return you’ll gain back its respect.
Secondly, Obama was elected president because he is the right man for the task of rebuilding what has been butchered by Bush. He’s refreshing and open-minded – exactly what the U.S. needs right now, and he’s got everyone’s attention (American or not). On top of it all, he is our first black president – a fact that can’t be ignored and that is historically important; however, I don’t believe that he was elected because everyone is too busy freaking out about their “new enemy”- the Arab they saw on the bus whose latte may have been a bomb in disguise ready to be detonated by his blackberry.

Note: My comment is not meant to offend sensitive readers – just food for thought.

I don’t read much but this is fun. I’m not even very well aware of what the fuck is going on in this world. But I just have to say this. I don’t know what the hell “muslim” extremists have been reading or following. I’m a Muslim and what they do is like…. -against- the teachings. so like……… Are they even Muslims >.>;;;

Maybe I’ll just join the hoard of humans screaming around about the world ending in 2012.

Fascinating to see some people’s intelligence and others prejudice side by side. Hope you read these too….lots to be learned from reading the comments as well as your blogs.

OK…its been awhile since I’ve been here…so let me see if I can set the record straight…or maybe stir things up, probably both. Here’s my tirade, albeit lengthy, sorry…

I’d like to apologize for erroneously using the word Muslim…when what I meant was radical extremist Muslim or Isam. But, I don’t apologize for believing that there is inherent evil in extremist Islam. If you think differently then can your holy opinion (as I try to do) and do some research first.

That Obama is possibly a Muslim (I coud care less) is NOT the reason I don’t call him the savior. I simply poo poo the notion of him (or nearly any President) because he (like all politicians) is a LIAR. I abhor liars that smile from one side of ther mouth while venom (or flattery) spews from the other. I’ve never observed a SINGLE politician who doesn’t fit this category. I don’t bow down to the illusion that he or his team of clowns will be able to fix our countries mess—that the previous 15 years of clowns got us into.

I mean really, you expect that the ones (congress) that were so ignorant to create the mess in the first place can’t now suddenly have the omniscient knowledge to get us out of it? So they (or Obama) asks for the “peoples help” what this really means is: “ I’m about ready to rob and steal (tax, inflation) every last penny you have, but don’t worry your silly little head (even though you’ve worked your entire life) cuz you are helping me (the govt , thief’s, and your other lazy or countrymen that need handouts), but when you get ready to retire and you still don’t have a home (cuz I stole all your money) I’m sorry, but social security has nothing left for you( cuz you cost me too much money), sorry. Good luck”. Yea, Tesse, the US is not so free anymore…as I pass 12 cameras on the way to the store.

Back to the Muslim thing — and, it’s not mine to pass judgment on anyone (Obama). But, for those that have a true and devout faith in any religion, it’s impossible to separate it from who they are. It is not a piece of clothing they put on, it is who they are. It encompasses their world view, thought process and way of life. It may be private, but it’s not being separate from who they are as a person. If it is, then they are familiar with their religion of choice, but it is not their core belief.
15% of the worlds 1.3 billion Muslims are fundamentalists/extremists (95 million zealots bent upon the US destruction and more so Israel). The other 85% of Muslims are not extremists’, but they rarely speak out strongly against them. If there is a “peaceful” majority of Muslims, then they (as Muheren) should speak out clearly and strongly against the growing power/voice of the fundamentalists, or they will be confused with the Muslims who are not peace loving. So, Americans who appear to not embrace the goodness of Islam (because they can only react to the voice that is loudest and most dangerous) are not at fault, it’s the Muslim extremists who give the bad name. Speak against them. If it’s not done, when Muslim fundamentalists launch attacks against US citizens that kill tens of thousands, there will be a fury that will not be so discerning of what kind of a Muslim a person is, unless they’ve made it clear beforehand.

Enough on politics / religion…makes me dizzy. Where’s the chocolate?

I know it is a bit weird. And maybe annoying. I don’t try to nullify politics (I mean how can your really), but damn…it can be so frustrating to decipher the reality behind the veil — like herding cats. I am pretty optimistic that mankind individually will have the intelligence to overcome the obstacles. Yea, you’re right, Govt is here to stay. I have the hope that someday those within its upper circles —those that do have the character and integrity — to do what is right for its people will rise more to the top. Of course there are some…I’m not completely irrational.

Yea fundamentalism can lead to so many dangerous actions.

Tuche…
I do like chocolate…I was merely getting tired of my own lengthy tirade (and clearly assumed others were as well) and needed to move onto something more esoteric. But, I do hope that being a political junkie that you appreciate /welcome a bit of alternative thought at least minutely as much as your own or especially those that continuously pander at each other or your every breath? I mean cummon…cant the rest of us be Negative too?

“he (like all politicians) is a LIAR.”
“Yea, you’re right, Govt is here to stay. I have the hope that someday those within its upper circles —those that do have the character and integrity — to do what is right for its people will rise more to the top. Of course there are some…I’m not completely irrational.”

So… Which is it?

And yes, they’re such thieves for taxing you in order to fund roads, schools, police and fire departments, libraries, social security, medicare, national defense, etc. HOW DARE THEY?

Sarah, Let me guess…you currently aren’t pay property taxes, or earn enough to require you to pay more than 15% in payroll taxes? Not trying to be rude (really) but wait till its gets to 38%, and then as we slide into socialism and a national healthcare plan and pay more for those schools, roads, libraries, Medicare etc. (which incidentally WE ALREADY PAID FOR, but hey the politicians needed those $$ for their special projects/interests, so they use the name of kids education to convince you they need more) and you are paying not only property tax, but a 15% sales tax, state tax, increased inflation ($25 for a loaf of bread), and left with no social security for your retirement (cuz we spent it) then other alternatives might start to look good.

I’m sick of working hard, just so I can give all my hard earned money to the government who hands it to my neighbor who has feigned disability because of a hurt thumb and wants to stay home with the kids, or to pay for the healthcare costs for illegal’s who fill up emergency rooms and don’t pay (because they don’t have to), or for those schools that are 90% filled with illegal’s (and shouldn’t exist in the first place), and where we advertise free lunches (so why should they pay for their own lunch) and they don’t even have to learn to speak English. This is stealing my money.

I‘m all for helping those in need, and of course paying for infrastructure (schools, roads, libraries etc). but not excessive, endless spending (borrowing) programs just to bail out those that that maybe should just fold?

My Europe friends pay more than 60% of their income in taxes to pay for their services, and if they want to go to the doctor they wait 3 months. Not exactly rosey. It’s where we’re headed. I hope our government can figure a way to fix these issues. So, I’m hopeful, but not delusionary.

Well now there you go bringing Jefferson into it! Am I the only person in America who can not stand this man? He plaigarized the hell out of George Mason, ripped off Palladio, enslaved his baby-mamma, and priced his own kids next to his livestock in his plantation journals. Really. Give me five pennies instead of a nickle any day!

Interesting…today Obama administration said (yahoo)
“Social Security and Medicare Crisis: Expect Health Care Rationing and Later Retirement”. “Social Security and Medicare are on the verge of bankruptcy and will collapse sooner than expected.”

“Social Security will start burning cash in 2017 and wiped out its funds by 2037, four years earlier than projections. Medicare, which is already operating in red, will be insolvent by 2017, two years earlier than previously believed”

Our two biggest social services about to fail.

50% TAXES OOMING TO EVERY WORKER SOON.

So go ahead, keep supporting every social program, kids program and FREEBIE under the sun.

I too, just love to paying for lazy asses who suck our system dry.

Daisy

I am from a country where I currently pay over 50% in my taxes to fund the health , social , education in our country. Yes we have economic problems at the moment mostly created by our developers and top bankers greed and our governments stupidity on ignoring the problems coming down the track.

Personally our problems do not come from ” lazy asses” but those I mentioned above.
Guess I believe it comes down to feeling we need to invest in people – our education , health care and basic living standards. Sure some people abuse the system but there are plenty of others who need the social welfare system from time to time but are hard working.

Neil love your blog , came from one of the AI sites because I liked your sense of humour shown on a copy of your blog there.

Anyhow I’m a european who was never american hating but did think your previous president was an idiot and did nothing to endear your country to the rest of the world. Obama is a pure diplomat and that is good for the USA.

Neil hope you enjoy NYC as much as I have !

Comment from upstream:
“I agree with the original premise. I figured those folks in Iowa were far more disgusted by/afraid of Bush (/McCain) and Hillary than they were by Barack.”

I’m still trying to figure out what my fellow Iowans were thinking. As one of three who showed up at our caucus site for Biden, I thought I’d accidently made a wrong turn into a carnival.

You had the ‘Hillarites’ hawking free food, T-shirts, assorted dreck. In her corner stood the businessmen and attorneys. I wonder why she ran low on $$ several weeks later? It was a strange juxtaposition to have the county attorney begging three long-hairs with tattoos to come to their corner.

Then you had the Edwards camp. These people hadn’t been paying attention for four years, and just decided to go with the familiar — somewhere they had a 4-year-old autograph.

The other 3/4 of the room was occupied by the Obama bandwagon. It was the place to be, even if they didn’t know why — it was happenin’. They didn’t care if you joined their group. They were just smug in the knowledge that THEY were in the RIGHT group. Actually they scared me, and I threw up in my mouth a little.

For me the thought of a pasty, white, ‘get off my lawn’ McCain dying and leaving us with Caribou Barbie was an incentive. Edwards — he never did anything for me the first time around. The people in the Hillary corner — enuff said. The Obamaniacs? Thinking about them makes me think of clowns — clowns scare me.

At least with Joe we would have been ROTFL on our way to the bottom. I picture the US as a bus hung up on a boulder at the edge of a cliff. Joe’s at the wheel. It’s a plastic wheel with a big red honkin’ horn from a kiddie seat. He’s telling every lame joke he knows. You’re clean and articulate enough to come to the front of the bus dontcha know?

Anyone who’d been paying attention since 2001 knew where we were headed. The whole thing came down to how, when, how fast we were going to get there.

In the end, all three of us left without joining another group. I still think I would rather have laughed my way over the cliff; dragging it out is killing me slowly.

I am very happy that Barack Obama is the President. I hope he can bring a level of intelligence and humanity to US political life (I have to be hopeful, I have 3 kids). But I don’t forget that another big contributing factor to his election was grizzled, sometimes daft John McCain and his partner, Bible Spice.

Aw Neil, to say that I’m hurt after reading your blog would be an understatement. I’m Muslim and I’m not..scary. I live in Pakistan, and I still know about you and your brother, and I still know about American Idol. I’ve lived in Pakistan all my life and I’ve never encountered a Taliban in my 16 years! Its really sad the way Muslims are viewed around the world! Just saying, I love your blog, I love the way you write, your cynicsm and sarcasm, but heyy, we aren’t ALL that bad you know! just a thought.. no hard feelings!

Well I’m not an American, (I’m from Malaysia, this wee little muslim country next to an even wee littler Singapore =D) so i dont think i know much about the details of the whole Barack election thing.

Well there’s definitely no doubt that him being almost a polar opposite to Bush was a main factor in him winning. But i think he was more charismatic compared to the other ppl who were in the running.. i mean if he had the public speaking skills of John McCain, he’d have way less support wouldnt he? So i guess with his message of “CHANGE” and all that, he knows what the people want to hear lol..

But politicians are in the end just…. well politicians. Whatever Big Promises they make during elections are just empty farting coming out the wrong end. It still reeks like rotten tacos. its the same in every damned country. except in North Korea probably.. that guy dosnt NEED to make promises. What do you think of the political scene in North Korea? Your opinion would be interesting to read XD..

Racism, no matter what people say, has always and will probably always be a problem in society everywhere. Like over here in lil ol M’sia.. we brag to tourists about our multiracial-ness and all the different cultures, especially the 3 main groups, Malays, Chinese and Indians.. but underneath all those commercials and posters we’re about as racist as can be.

P.SForgive the poor english and long-winded-ness, but over here, our english standards are pretty darn low lol.. not everyone has a gift with words like you do-short, and yet so satifying-ly sarcastic and cynical at the same time. it also gets the message through loud and clear =)

At least your country hasn’t recently managed to elect two members of the most racist, far-right political part to be European Members of Parliament. I’m getting seriously worried about where politics is headed in the UK. There are no strong leaders, the governing party is in meltdown (Cabinet members leaving the sinking ship right, left and centre), the main opposition party would be even more disastrous and bring in massive cuts in health, education and welfare, and just about every politician in the UK has been discovered to be feathering their own nest through the broadest possible interpretation of the politicians’ expenses system (one MP claimed over $4,000 for a “duck island” for his house, and others have been claiming up to $30,000 for mortgages on second homes for themeselves or their kids.)

The crying shame about all of this is that the Labour government have done some really good things to help the areas that matter (heath, education and social justice) but unfortunately they have also managed to bring the country to the brink of bankruptcy from a position of realtive prosperity when they came to power in 1997, dragged us into an immoral (if not illegal) war, and managed to lower everyone’s opinions of politicians in general through shameful crony-ism, sleaze and in-fighting. It really is very, very depressing.

From the late 1400s to the early 1800s, the terrorists of the day were a little group of fanatical religious extremists known as the Roman Catholic Church, and the horror inflicted during that period of time, among other things, became known as the Spanish Inquisition.

Funny how time has a way of glossing over things.

Now, I’m not Catholic. Would anyone think to condemn someone of the Catholic faith as a terrorist for events they were not a part of, or for a history they cannot change? It seems agreeable that the idea is ludicrous and illogical.

I am not Muslim, either. It seems to me there is also a breach in logic to castigate someone of that faith for actions they were not part of, or to grab up pitchforks and jump on a wagon because Billy Bob and his brainless buddies thought ethnic cleansing was [still] the ‘American way’.

I will, however, tell my Catholic family members when they are picking my ass, and to leave me the hell alone. And when the Muslim landlord I once had used to get in my face, I would tell him just as easily he was being an ass. (My family is awesome, and so was my landlord, for the record, but people are people!)

Point is, we can interact with the people we know and be subjective. Beyond that we have to be far more objective. To cast sweeping judgments on whole groups of people based on race, religion, politics, the actions of a few, whatever – would qualify as definite illogical reasoning.

Hi, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlWSv0NZBRw&NR=1

I’m sorry you checked it out, too, if you think I condone any of that. I thought that leaving such stupidity up would allow the rest of us to collectively dump on the guy making the comments. You really gotta work on focusing your negativity though: besides one guy, everyone here unanimously rejected the premise of Barack as a Muslim and, presumably, that it would matter if he were.

@nan

It’s weird. You don’t have completely stupid opinions, it’s just that your particular brand of political nihilism is annoying and completely unrealistic. Government is here to stay and it can be a force for good and a force of evil. Throwing your hands in the air and proclaiming that all those who wish to involve themselves in government are lying thieves eliminates the possibility that there will ever be a government not populated by liars and thieves. And you’re a bit off: it’s 25 years. Reagan started this mess.

Secondly, you absolutely could care less that Obama was Muslim. You could care so little that you wouldn’t bring it up. But instead, you do. I think we can all agree that fundamentalism is dangerous no matter what religion we find it in. A lot of non-Christians could say the exact same thing about the people in our country.

You’re right, enough on politics / religion. Eat your chocolate. Unfortunately this is a largely political site. You should probably stop commenting.